which team for touring australia ?

[Gil]

I just learn france touring team will fly to oz 18th june. that means the four semi finalists teams players won't be able to join group .... ( semi finals are on 22th and 29th ) 
I am bit fed up with this "gigot haricot " tour 

judging on french actual champioships . no players form toulouse , clermont, biarritz and stade français 

[tenbeers]

It's madness, Gil. The lions tour to SA next year is due to depart a week before the heineken cup final too (much like the summer tour to SA last year with 2 english finalists). It beggars belief that the southern unions and the irb can get things so wrong ... and then complain that tours are weakened. If it's an all french final, I'm sure you'll understand that the british clubs threw their matches.

[Gil]

true because clubs are dominant in NH rugby economy ...ERC,federations are shit.

[Gil]

thought electing lapasset as IRB president would have changed something but
one good thing should see bruno selection ...seeing swazerski perfomance during 6N

[Reformed]

It beggars belief that the southern unions and the irb can get things so wrong ... and then complain that tours are weakened.

... and this is our fault?

As far as I know the touring nation also agrees to the terms... If it is such a conflict of interrest then surely the touring nation can have the dates ammended prior to the actual scheduling of the games?... This is planned well in advance I believe?

... so how can this the the SH nations' fault?

Or am I just being naive / narrow minded / obtusely orientated towards the whole issue?...

I am sorry to hear that the Frnch tour is once again in for a rough ride Gill... The last thing they needed after the previous tour to NZ...
And yes... I agree that the timing is horrible and I think that the tour should be postponed for about 3 - 4 weeks. As this is not a RWC year there should be no excuse from any nation to send a sub standard team on tour...

[ROAMER]

Hear hear !

[Reformed]

I am getting tired of hearing that it is the SH unions that force their poor defenceless HN cousins into excepting terms and dates that make it impossible for them to send decent teams due to other (club) commitments...

Good heavens boys!!! If we had such power you wouldn't have clubs at all...

[Gil]

I disagree, reformed. because of RWC french championships began 2 months later ...
how is michalak performing with sharks , ref ? I saw muir made him play as inside centre ...
if he is OK we could field a good enough competitive team.

[Gil]

the main worry is that the gap between the end of season in NH and the beginning of 3N is very short.
because of heineken cup success ...we had no worries before while elite championships got 20 clubs ...now we get 14 clubs but the time you earn is filled with Hcup.
because of 3 N success ...now each team plays 6 games instead of 4

remember a year get only 52 weeks.
you are beginning trinations earlier while we are finishing our season later.
we are seeing a real inflation of rugby games and each country is seeing his interest ...it can't work.

what is the solution ?  playing less games ..but ...

[Reformed]

how is michalak performing with sharks , ref ? I saw muir made him play as inside centre ...
if he is OK we could field a good enough competitive team.

He has not had it all his way Gil... First up there is not a hell of a lot of space in the Sharks' squad... Dick Muir is doing the sensible thing by not meddling with a winning team.

The games where he has played he looked pretty good to me... not at his sparkling best but not bad. Michalak actually impressed me a lot on inside centre... at times... he made a couple of blunders but his tactical vision is absolutely bloody brilliant! He reads the opposition backline very well and seems to have a feeling for where their (opposition) weaknesses are... Then again his defence is mighty suspect...  All in all he seems to be enjoying himself... good for him.

you are beginning trinations earlier while we are finishing our season later.
we are seeing a real inflation of rugby games and each country is seeing his interest ...it can't work.

what is the solution ?  playing less games ..but ...

I fully understand that it is a dilemma that has to be sorted out... for the better of all involved.
I was just reacting on beers' statement (or part of it at least) where the blame is put in front of the SH nations... My argument is simple... The NH touring sides are party to the agreements that they sign... they can have this issue raised when the tours get planned. I cannot for the life of me see how the NH sides will have terms dictated to them when they are supposed to play... or not play?

If anyone is to balme it is (again) the money moguls and tv networks who focus on the best possible vieing windows so that the largest posssible audience can tune in to the games...

In large i agree with Beers... just not on the point of our involvement in the mess.

[tenbeers]

I cannot for the life of me see how the NH sides will have terms dictated to them when they are supposed to play... or not play?

Why would the unions decide to play tests matches at the same time as their national competition finals if it wasn't pressure from the irb and the other union? it doesn't make sense otherwise.

Everyone at the table must know where they stand when they make these agreements, don't they? are are they all cucumbered out and sitting under the table by then?

[Reformed]

Perhaps it's a situation where the NH National unions and the clubs need to sit around a table... in the same room at the same time. We here in the SH don't seem to have nearly as much trouble scheduling our games... or perhaps we just have far more depth and can afford to have a full club season and a successful international season... at the same time.. 

[tenbeers]

For once this isn't a matter of 'club v country'. The national championships are the unions domestic showpiece ... they are perfectly aware when they have scheduled it, and are perfectly aware of the disastrous consequences were they to require its best players to pull out at the pointy end of the season.

The Huge problem is in trying to squeeze more and more and more moneymaking, but ultimately pointless, test matches into the season ... and that is a global problem.